Young women warned of alcohol, rape linkBy Glenn Smith (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Sunday, September 21, 2008
On a warm August morning, an 18-year-old woman woke up naked and alarmed in an acquaintance's bed after a night of drinking in Charleston. She feared she had been raped. Just a week earlier, another young woman had experienced a similar trauma, waking after a night of heavy boozing in the Holy City to discover she had been violated, as well. Victim advocates for the Charleston Police Department say date rapes and sexual assaults involving alcohol have become more commonplace among college-age women in this port city where bars are plentiful and binge drinking can be a popular pastime. Some 33 women reported being raped in Charleston in the first eight months of the year, compared to 24 incidents in the same period in 2007. As many as half of the current cases involved alcohol or drugs in some way, authorities said. The local People Against Rape organization has received reports of even more incidents from victims who don't end up calling law enforcement, Melonea Locklair, the nonprofit's executive director said. "And I would say between 75 and 80 percent of the acquaintance assaults we deal with have alcohol involved with them," she said. This potential threat does not appear to have dampened the party spirit among the city's younger crowd. Several young women interviewed last week said they and their friends won't shy away from a night of cocktails on the town, but they do take more precautions, such as traveling in groups. Most had reservations about going home with people they don't know and they avoid party-hopping by themselves. Natalie Williams, a 20-year-old junior at the College of Charleston, has even taken to a carrying a Taser in her purse when she goes out at night. The stun gun was a gift from her parents. "If something really did happen, I don't know how much it would help," Williams said. "But it helps me feel safe." Victim advocates aren't suggesting that students like Williams stop having fun. But they say young women need to know their limits when drinking, keep their wits about them and call police if they suspect they've been assaulted. "We don't want anybody to feel afraid to come forward, even if they are underage. They won't be penalized," victim advocate Carlaise Gadsden said. "We want to make sure we have an open door and they receive the services they need." Gadsden and fellow advocate Heather Hillman plan to speak Monday night to students at the College of Charleston about this danger and to offer safety tips. They also are considering placing fliers or pamphlets in city bars as a reminder to young women to watch their backs when drinking. "We want to avoid this happening, and the common denominator in all this seems to be alcohol," Hillman said. "Some of these incidents can be prevented." The initiative falls right in line with Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen's push this year to crack down on problems that arise from this thirsty city's over-indulgence in alcohol. Police have repeatedly warned about drunken people becoming easy prey for robbers and rapists. The young are often well-represented among the victims. Allie Nordoff, a 19-year-old College of Charleston student, said the Holy City's walk-about, pub crawl nightlife can present dangers to vulnerable young women who have been drinking. "You and your friends don't just stay at one bar or party," Nordhoff said. "You are usually on foot, traveling back and forth from bar to bar." Nationally, college age women are four times more likely than others to be sexually assaulted, according to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. But often, the danger is closer to home than people realize. Some 73 percent of female victims of sexual assault know their attackers in some way, the organization reports. The College of Charleston, like many schools these days, has a variety of programs aimed at increasing safety and educating students about the dangers of over-indulging in alcohol and drugs. Nordhoff took a rape defense class through the school. Among other things, she learned how to counter an attack from behind and went through a spinning exercise that simulated how disorienting a drunken state can be. "I have always been cautious," Nordhoff said. "But this class went over things you can do to prevent certain situations." Locklair of People Against Rape applauds such efforts to educate and protect young women. But she would like to see schools place more emphasis on educating young men about proper behavior toward women. "They need to be preaching to young men to be respectful of their dates," she said. "If they've had too much to drink then walk them home, don't take advantage of them." In 2006, The Citadel released a survey that found the school leading other military academies in reports of sexual assault and harassment. In response to the results, the college put in place the Values and Respect Program, which requires all cadets to participate in lessons on sexual harassment and assault, alcohol and drug abuse and the school's honor code. Janet Shealy, coordinator of the program, said she tries to reach cadets early on and personally meets with every freshman who enters the school. In the past two years, Shealy said, she has been impressed by the cadets' receptiveness to the effort and the growing awareness in the corps about what constitutes proper behavior. "It's had a very powerful effect," she said. Reach Glenn Smith at 937-5556 or gsmith@postandcourier.com. |
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Comments
This article has 48 comment(s)
Posted by karmann on September 21, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How about educating men on respecting women. Of course that may mean looking at movies and lyrics of songs that demean women.
Posted by ForPnC on September 21, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"In response to the results, the college put in place the Values and Respect Program"
If you need this kind of program then you're not worth being around.
Posted by EqualityB4theLawThinkAgain on September 21, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This article is so 1970s male bashing and sterotypical in its presentation of woman as the weaker sex. Maybe we should look to our Muslim brothers' solution to this problem and have all woman wear a burka and only be out in public with a male relative as an escort; forbid alcohol throughout our society; and if a rape occurs, make the offending male marry the girl and bring her parents presents. This would certainly reduce the number of "date" rapes in the Holy City.
Posted by robbybobby on September 21, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Girls, girls, girls, you are such a flock of whining sheep. The majority of you go out to hook up, and then want to pretend you were "violated" in the morning. What a wonderful crop of wives and mothers you will make. Go get some more tatoos, do your shots, yell at the top of your lungs, get laid, and quit wining. Otherwise, stay out of the kitchen if the heat is too much.
Posted by tmh32 on September 21, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you go out, get drunk, then decide to have sex with anyone. You cannot just decide the next morning that you were raped. It's not the guys fault you were willing the night before so be responcible for your own actions.
Posted by jeff61 on September 21, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Part of the tramp stamp collection
Posted by moonpie on September 21, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
IT'S AMAZING WE HAVE COME TO THIS?
Posted by 10216340 on September 21, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow....some of the comments on this article are very scary.
karmann wrote: "How about educating men on respecting women. Of course that may mean looking at movies and lyrics of songs that demean women."
Please read the article. It was mentioned in the article that some schools are doing just that.
EqualityB4theLawThinkAgain wrote: "this article is so 1970s male bashing"
How is this male bashing. If a woman gets raped....it's generally a male that does it....duh.
EqualityB4theLawThinkAgain also wrote: "...if a rape occurs, make the offending male marry the girl and bring her parents presents. This would certainly reduce the number of "date" rapes in the Holy City."
I'm sure that would be every woman's dream....to marry her rapist.
robbybobby wrote: "Girls, girls, girls, you are such a flock of whining sheep. The majority of you go out to hook up, and then want to pretend you were "violated" in the morning."
While I don't approve of the behavior of a lot of young men and women these days.....wanting to "hook up" does not mean a young lady deserves to be raped. My opinion is certainly that sex should be saved for marriage. However, rape is rape, not consensual sex and no amount of justification can make it any less hideous. The article was not talking about two adults choosing to have sex, it was about women going out at night and getting raped.
In addition, this article was not just about young women becoming victims.....young men can also become victims of violence and that was also mentioend in the article.
Posted by mommyslove003 on September 21, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As being a woman that has been drugged while at a club, this is no laughing matter. The only difference is that I was with a group that did notice I was missing and helped me before anything horrible happened!! Those of you who think that women actually ask for this is full of it!! If you have to drug a woman to get with them, then you are a pathetic excuse for a human being and I am sorry for you. And for the person with the comment that women go out to get laid- even if a woman did go out with expectations of hooking up, THEY should have the choice of whom they are intersted in and how far they want to go!! As it is, the only advise I can give is to make sure you are with reliable friends and NEVER leave your drink unoccupied, if you do lose track of your drink for a moment, throw it out. Go to the bar yourself to order your drinks- bypass the waitress!! It isn't worth it. That is what happened to me! If something does happen to you- know you did not deserve it, report it so they find and crush the scum bag!
Posted by blackgoat on September 21, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All three girls mentioned in this story are under 21, and yet somehow the fact that they were out all night drinking doesn't seem to be the issue? Forcible and violent rape is one thing. Regretting (or not remembering) your drunken actions from the previous night is quite another.
Posted by GG on September 21, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't wait for Cold Beer's comments on the girl with the taser. Ha!
Posted by skeeter on September 21, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What in the Hell is an 18 year old doing drinking in a nightclub? Whoever served her alcohol should be prosecuted too.
I'm not bashing her and I'm sure she was just being a teenager but SHE'S TOO YOUNG TO DRINK!!
She broke the law too.
Posted by oldglory on September 21, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mommy, your points are well-made. I agree.
Posted by JLWDALFAN on September 21, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'M NOT WOMAN BASHING, BUT COME ON, THEY GET DRUNK AND IN A LOT OF CASES THEY FLIRT, THEY GO HOME WITH SOMEONE AND HAVE SEX. (IT WAS CONSENTIAL WHILE SHE WAS DRUNK), THEN THE NEXT MORNING IT TURNS INTO RAPE. GIVE ME A BREAK. IF YOU BLACK OUT WHILE YOU DRINK AND CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU ARE DOING, THEN QUIT DRINKING. THIS GROUP THAT WANTS YOU TO PRESS CHARGES, IS MAKING ME SICK. THIS CAN & IN MOST CASES WILL RUIN A YOUNG MANS LIFE. IF THE GIRL IS RAPED, THEN BY ALL MEANS PRESS CHARGES, BUT HOW CAN CONSENTIAL SEX BE RAPE?
Posted by majorjohnson on September 21, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you wake up in someones bed and wonder if you were raped, maybe you should consider that you were willing when you hit the sack. If you don't remember denying the request, how can you know you didn't say yes? Just because you were too drunk to remember doesn't mean you were raped.
Instead of worrying that you were raped you should be worried that you were so drunk you put yourself in that situation.
Posted by 512c on September 21, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Men, don't think your immune.
A friend of mine and I were at a table with a pretty young lady, these two goof balls came over and sat down.
we had wine, and she had a large glass of red.
we left, came back, and she was inside, with another glass, so we thought the glass at our table was his.
He drank it, and later I had to carry a 6'2" dj home.
Dont leave your glasses of drinks out of sight, and don't accept drinks you have not watched.
Posted by dogdoc1 on September 21, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No one seems too concerned that these woman mentioned in the article are all UNDERAGE!!! Maybe drinking out at bars and night clubs while underage isnt such a good idea and they would not be the target of these rapists.
Posted by 10216340 on September 21, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas1776 - what did I say in my comment that made you think I am, in any way suggesting that I am "God himeself, Mr. Perfect?"
And while you're at it, what in my comment led you to believe I was a Mr.? Get the gender and title correct.......it's Mrs. 10216340
Posted by nappyd on September 21, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
so wait, drunk women are easier to take advantage of?
next week: study finds that women spend less on alcohol than men when they go out.
Tune in to the P&C as they continue to state the obvious!
Posted by coopersmom on September 21, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OH PLEASE WHAT BULL CRAP. THESE GIRLS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT GETTING RAPED,THEN WHY ARE THEY OUT IN THE CLUBS TILL 2 A.M.?THEY GET DRUNK,RUN TO THE GUY'S PLACE,AND THEN FORGET ABOUT IT TILL THEY WAKE UP THE NEXT MORNING.THEY WANT EVERYONE TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM,LIKE I DIDN'T REMEMBER.WHATEVER.THEY DON'T WANT THEIR MOM'S& DAD'S TO THINK THEY OUT SLEEPING AROUND.I'M SURE OVER THE YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN MANY CASES OFF THE DATE RAPE DRUG LIKE ANDREW LUSTER WHO HAD TO BE HUNTED DOWN.
BUT THE MOST OF THEM ARE OUT FOR A GOOD TIME. IF THEY ARE SO SCARED AND WORRIED ABOUT IT, THEN STAY OUT THE BARS/CLUBS.SO YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS OF ANYONE PUTTING ANYTHING IN YOUR DRINKS.AND WHY ARE ALL THESE GIRLS UNDER THE AGE OF 21?THOUGHT THAT WAS LEGAL AGE TO BE IN THESE CLUBS,AND TO GET SERVED? MORE NEEDS TO BE PUT ON WHAT AGE THESE KIDS ARE THAT ARE GOING INTO THESE PLACES.
Posted by 10216340 on September 21, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Folks, there seems to be two schools of thought here. One groups seems to think this article was about date rape (using drugs or not) and/or taking advantage of a passed out young woman.
The other seems to think the situations mentioned have to do with young women, going home with guys for sex and then regretting it in the morning and crying rape.
I took the article to mean the first instance.
I have no sympathy for those in the second catagory, only the first (those taken advantage of when they where unable to say "No" because they where drugged or passed out).
Posted by geekboy on September 21, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coopersmom:
See that key on the left side of your keyboard labeled "Caps Lock"?
Please press it ONE time.
Thanking you in advance,
gb
Posted by UrGatorbait on September 21, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When all else fails, the UBer idiot Thomas speaks.
I still can't believe in this day and age, with all the self esteem fell good classes in HS, the television adds, the info on the net, tales from friends and all other manner of information, these "educated" kids still do this. Shocking.
Both sides know what they are doing. They both go out, get loaded and do stuff they regret. Now they fell guilty of their own stupidity and we get programs like these to suave the consciousness of the masses.
Posted by stephaniem on September 21, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
unfortunately, women can pass out and then get assaulted. What needs to be done is drop the double standard that a man is a man if he has multiple partners while a female is a slut if she does the same
they also need to invent something the size of a tampon that can cut into the male if he inserts himself into a female while she is passed out.
that said....I remember staying late to watch a movie at a friend's house. I took some pain pills for my back (horse accident) and ended up dozing off on the couch. I woke up to him putting his hands on me and I made it clear that he was far from my type from the beginning. I left and filed a secret report on him to help his next victim out legally as I was too embarrassed to file charges.
many guys will take advantage of a girls situation (mental retardation, drunkness, or in need of money) to score as having sex is a manly thing.
Best thing our media could do is start praising virgin males or celibate males w/o accusing them of being gay.
Britney and her sister were supposed to be virgins but the harry potter actor was applauded when he bragged about losing his.
Posted by walleyedwoman1215 on September 21, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you keep your wits about you, you won't have to wonder if you were "violated" the next day. That means don't binge drink, keep your friends close and NEVER accept a beverage you haven't seen opened or poured from a sealed bottle.
Posted by TheBerean on September 21, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Logical progression here. The verdict associated with Roe v. Wade clearly devalues human life in the womb. From this, there is further devaluation of the person carrying that human life along with the responsibility of consequences associated with physical intimacy. There is a downward cascade from there leaving behind love, respect, and genuine intimacy, all of which is replaced by the drive for the immediate fulfillment of individual needs. This is driven by selfish desires for physical pleasure and subsequent abuse at a variety of levels is inevitable as both parties cannot continue to have their relationship expectations met outside of a marital commitment. Summary - no surprise here.
Posted by mkris on September 21, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
THEBEREABNN WROTE: Logical progression here. The verdict associated with Roe v. Wade clearly devalues human life in the womb. From this, there is further devaluation of the person carrying that human life along with the responsibility of consequences associated with physical intimacy. There is a downward cascade from there leaving behind love, respect, and genuine intimacy, all of which is replaced by the drive for the immediate fulfillment of individual needs. This is driven by selfish desires for physical pleasure and subsequent abuse at a variety of levels is inevitable as both parties cannot continue to have their relationship expectations met outside of a marital commitment. Summary - no surprise here.
Oh for gods sake, You are a brain dead idiot.
Posted by UrGatorbait on September 21, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said walleyedwoman.
Posted by TheBerean on September 21, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mkris wrote - the very best possible response she / he could come up with.
Next time however, consider it better to have people think that you are ignorant (or "post-modern") than to respond in a manner that removes all possible doubt.
Posted by rollo on September 21, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are responsible for you. If you don't know were you are or how you got there, or what might have happened to you there, then all you have is circumstances and foggy memories,
none of which holds up in court.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by darkwing_7 on September 21, 2008 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Having been a doorman/ bouncer in a number of bars, both downtown and in the tricounty area, I have seen my fair share of both male and female drunks. I don't advocate drinking till you are out of control. I have been there and have since grown older and wiser. I also don't agree with taking advantage of a drunken partner. The fact that if you can do it, how many have been there befor you? You only reinforce the fact that you are pathetic, if that is the only way you can "get some"! I have seen a fair number of times when females come in and purposly get drunk hoping someone will take advantage of them. I have also seen others get taken advantage of just because they were having way too much of a good time and there friends weren't much help. I think if you go out and are with some responsible friends, then you can get a little wild. If you can't trust who you are with, Don't be with them! I also think the bars are responsible for allowing these underage girls in. It is a double standard. If you are 18 and a male you can't come in, they let the underage females in because they know that the male patrons will spend money on them. Make the age 21 regardless of your gender. Act like an adult, Take responsibility for your actions... for they are yours alone!
Posted by lantanagurl on September 22, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
darkwing_7...AMEN! And to a previous comment, yes indeed there is a double standard. I beleive I saw it posted earlier that men can have many sex partners, and it's "maly", but a woman who does the same is a slut. See it every day, especially with the under 30 and partying around CofC crowd 9many fools & few with intelligence). Who lets these people out in public anyway?
Posted by Weeeee on September 22, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
eyfig, a big thanks to you.
prolet, hilarious.
steph, any guy who isn't paying you isn't "your type". But we all know what you do to guys who aren't, murderer. Now, stfu and understand that you really aren't welcome at this point.
Posted by Weeeee on September 22, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And for the record, I have several male friends that have many partners themselves. I call them sluts too. Doesn't make anything to me.
You women that were ok with it the night before need to get over yourselves. While I agree that anyone who rapes is scum and should be put to death, you women need to understand it's your responsibility to not get to the point where you can't even walk. Seriously.
This in no way condones actual rape by drugging or what not.
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
being a college town, there is no suprise that many women report "date rape"....in fact there are probably just as many men who wake up the next morning, naked, wondering if they did "something"....i have been there, gone out drinking, remember mmeting a girl, then the next thing i knew i woke up buck naked, like dang did i have sex with her...of course men are a lot less likely to complain about this! But the real concern in Charleston, is the thugs that committ violent rape! I know a girl who was violently gang raped in Charleston last year....she was in the parking lot of the beerworks bar on king when two thugs abducted her, knocked her out and put her in a car...sparing the details , she got raped very badly, but was able to run out of the house while the rapists were taking a break and smoking crack...she runs out of the house in a tshirt and finds herselfin the nassau america street area.......Now that is what the police should be concernend about...please step up the police foot patrol on and around King Street, for the sake of all the cute girls in Charleston....there are thugs out there who have nothing to do but smoke crack and rape innocent girls,,,,we need to catch them and hang them!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So you're a guy and you go out drinking with say, $100 in your pocket, a nice watch, and maybe a nice ring. You get too drunk, and end up covered with bruises, on a park bench, with naked wrist and empty pockets.
Has a crime been committed or not? Have you been robbed? Isn't it your fault for getting so drunk in the first place? You were out there tempting people with your nice stuff, weren't you? Asking for it, weren't you? You probably WANTED to be robbed, you know. Robbery slut.
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yes it would be a crime bc i did not go out to the bar all dressed up with the idea of hopefully getting robbed.....
the point is that guys and girls go out to bars, dress up real nice bc they are trying to attract a possible "hook-up buddy" for the night...then if a guy or girl wakes up from being "black-out" drunk with a person from the bar and doesnt remember having sex or not...its hard for a jury to understand that it was "rape".....
rape is a terrible, terrible sin...please don't get me wrong, the only point I am making is that in college girls and guys drink excessively and can "black-out", not remembering anything...people are still functioning, i.e. picking up a guy or girl, having a physical encounter with them, kepp drinking,,,,,but the memories are gone when they wake up....so yes, if you go out and drink until you blacked out, you should hold yourself somewhat accountable for your actions b/c you are the one putting yourself in a very dangerous position
and with the post you just made, it makes it sound like you should be able to go out and get wasted and not be held accountbale for anything that happens when your drunk
being drunk makes people make very bad decisions some times, that is a known fact
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, that is my point, that getting drunk does make people make bad decisions, and for that alone they are accountable -- but that whether or not a victim is/was drunk does NOT mean that a crime did not happen.
No one WANTS to go out and get robbed.
No one WANTS to go out and get raped.
Both these things happen to drunk and non drunk people.
But people seem less willing to admit that a victim of rape didn't secretly want the rape to happen, or that she is more at fault for letting it happen.
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A woman (or man)who is "not in control" is not CAPABLE of consenting to have sex, just as a person who is under 13 or legally insane or profoundly mentally retarded is not capable of consenting to have sex.
Any person who has sex with someone that they have reason to believe is not in control of him or herself needs to realize that he or she is potentially committing a crime, and to be prepared to accept the consequences.
If you really like the person, take him/her home, tuck him/her in, and leave a bottle of juice and a note with your phone number on the nightstand.
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jenny...obviouly everything you have said in the last two posts is true......i think your missing my point..all i am trying to say is that there are instances where, a guy and/or a girl is blackout drunk and his/her partner is drunk as well, they go home stuff happens consentually...in honest truth people can be "blacked out" without the other drunk person knowing, they have sex consentually, then the next morning one of them does not remember....they may not even remember going home with the other...it happens, it really does
no one should ever take advantage of anyone....but there are instances like i described above that turn into date rape cases.....
And really the main point is that WHEN YOU GO OUT AND BINGE DRINK...YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF INTO A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION.....its like walking into the hood with diamonds on, I am not justifying what happens, but people have to realize that YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE by not putting yourself in a dangerous position...do you really think girls would get date raped if they didn't go out and get wasted??? (obviuosly unless they are drugged)
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and I know people get raped without being drunk/wasted,
but here i am talking about the classic "college date rape" scenario......when both parties are drunk, neither of them have the capability of determining whether or not there partner is "in control"
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, I don't disagree that women and men need to exercise common sense. People don't need to go into the hood with diamonds on. But they do, and when the diamonds get pulled off, no one QUESTIONS that there has been a robbery.
What I'm saying is that there is a strong tendency where people/courts etc. simply say, well, she was asking for it/shouldn't have been so stupid/wasn't a virgin anyway, and excuse the rapist's behavior by blaming the victim for being an easy mark.
Sure, girls wouldn't get date-raped as often if they didn't get wasted, but they wouldn't get date-raped at all if men just DIDN'T RAPE THEM.
I quote from the article above, "Victim advocates aren't suggesting that students like Williams stop having fun. But they say young women need to know their limits when drinking, keep their wits about them and call police if they suspect they've been assaulted."
What if it said instead, "But they say young men need to exercise some self-control and respect human rights when drinking, keep their wits about them, and go back home if they feel that they might rape someone."
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with what you are saying, but it seems you are failing to acknowledge that ....People need to be responsible for themselves by not putting themselve in a dangerous situation. If it were as simple as saying, "Hey fellas stop raping women" than there would be no crime...the fact is there will always be rapists no matter what...you telling men not to rape women does nothing......you telling girls to not binge drink, don't go home with guys from bars, no do drink til you blackout, do not go out to bars alone, do not walk home alone at 2am, etc... (i.e. BE RESPONSIBLE) does a lot more good for prevention of rape
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and the blame of the rape should NEVER be passed onto the victim. It is always the rapists fault, I am really just emphasizng that there are many actions that women can take that make it a whole lot less likely for them to get raped
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 6:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Cfrulla1, you sound like a very decent guy. And I agree completely that women need to be careful, as do men.
I don't agree with you that "telling men not to rape women does nothing," though. I think it puts the blame back where it belongs.
The focus DOES need to be on guys learning that this behavior is criminal. Think of it this way, if there were a sudden crime wave on your campus, would you focus SOLELY on telling people to stay inside, not carry any money, walk in groups, etc? Or would you get some serious campus security out there fast and throw some bad guys in jail to teach them a lesson?
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In response to the sudden crime wave scenario...I think that you need to focus on both prevention education and stepping up police force...
People know what they are doing is wrong when a women says no/stop/don't touch me, etc.....
The focus as I stated in prior posts, for rape, should be the same: preventative education and enhanced police presence in bar locales...
Simply reinforcing the idea that rape is illegal, does not deter anyone from committing rape. Just like telling people murder is wrong, doesn't stop murderers. Telling crackheads that drugs are illegal will not stop them. Rapists are twisted, sick individuals...
so that is why i say that telling men not to rape women does nothing.....its like telling people not to murder others
we can agree to disagree
Posted by Jenny12345 on September 22, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mm, we might have to.
But don't you think that there are fellows out there who don't really think that what they are doing is wrong? I'm not talking about ski-masked strangers, I'm talking about that guy who sits next to you in class, who talks kind of loud and is a little obnoxious. He needs to hear it, really hear it, from you and from his friends and from the cops if necessary, that "having sex with" a woman who is too drunk to consent really is RAPE.
Posted by cfrulla1 on September 22, 2008 at 7:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
okay..i agree with what you just said...along with preventative education, it should be included in the literature that "having sex with" a woman who is too drunk to consent really is RAPE.
being i decent person, i guess i neglected to acknowledge that there are people who are actually college students who do not realize that is rape.....it just seems kind of sad you have to remind people of that.
the thing with walking into the hood with diamonds and getting robbed..how do you prevent that? don't walk into the hood with diamonds on
same goes for SOME instances of date rape..don't go to a bar and drink until you are "not in control", that will prevent a lot bad things from happening...(and i don't think saying that is placing the blame on a woman)
People must be SMART...there are definitely many ways to make yourself less of a target!!!!!!!!!!!