HOV lanes gaining momentumBy Tony Bartelme (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Sunday, July 20, 2008
Grace Beahm South Carolina transportation officials are beginning to examine the use of high-occupancy-vehicle, or HOV, lanes to handle rush-hour traffic on Interstate 26. 
The Post and Courier As the area's population swells, rush hour on Interstate 26 has become the plumber's equivalent of a stopped-up pipe. Now, state and local transportation leaders think high-occupancy-vehicle lanes could get traffic in this key pipeline flowing more freely. South Carolina transportation officials recently asked for federal funding to study whether HOV lanes, as they're often called, would make sense in Charleston. Common in many large cities, HOV lanes typically are reserved for vehicles carrying multiple passengers, such as buses or people in carpools. If implemented, the HOV lanes on I-26 would be the first in South Carolina, said H.B. "Buck" Limehouse Jr., State Secretary of Transportation. Limehouse said engineers have only begun to seriously examine the issue. "It's not a done deal, and we might run into so many obstacles that we find it doesn't work, but it's worth trying." The I-26 corridor is the area's most heavily traveled road, a conduit for about 140,000 vehicles a day. Most times, traffic flows freely. But not during rush hour. A recent Post and Courier study of travel times showed that during the worst part of the morning rush, just after 7:15 a.m., I-26 commuters from Summerville typically took 44 minutes to make it downtown. Leave an hour earlier or later, and trips took half as long. Traffic isn't likely to get better. Summerville, Goose Creek, North Charleston and Charleston are among the fastest growing municipalities in the state, a new U.S. Census Bureau report found. All this growth is funneling more cars onto I-26, fueling calls for more express buses and even a commuter train. "Doing nothing is not an option anymore," Limehouse said. The HOV idea began to gain traction last month when a transportation department engineer made a presentation to the Charleston Area Transportation Study Policy Committee about a new $66 million project to widen part of I-26. The widening work begins next month. Using existing rights of way, crews will add a lane on each side of I-26 from the Mark Clark Expressway to Ashley Phosphate Road, turning that busy 2.9-mile stretch from six lanes into eight. During the CHATS meeting, Patterson Smith, chairman of CARTA, suggested that the state should consider looking at HOV lanes as part of this widening project. The CHATS group voted unanimously to ask the transportation department to study the issue. "The main idea is to make I-26 more efficient," said Bill Crosby, CHATS chairman, adding that he also formed a focus group of regional leaders to kick-start the HOV idea. But the transportation department didn't get rolling on the concept until this month when Limehouse read The Post and Courier's series, The Great Train Debate, and met with federal transportation officials who support HOV projects. Limehouse then challenged his engineers to immediately come up with a plan to study the concepts pros, cons and costs. "I had total resistance from them at first," he said. "But most of the engineers came on board and are excited about it now." State traffic engineers produced a three-page report calling for traffic and environmental studies and public meetings. The report estimates the overall cost of studying and implementing the lanes at $4 million. Limehouse said he's asked the federal government for $10 million, a sizable portion of which could be used to establish permanent park-and-ride lots. "We need to be careful to make sure HOV lanes actually improve things, and we need to get the public involved, because if they don't like it or think it's a good idea, there's no reason to push it," Limehouse said. HOV lanes have their detractors. The National Motorists Association says the lanes use space that should serve the entire driving public. In other cities, motorists stuck in slower unrestricted lanes sometimes gripe about seeing fewer vehicles in HOV lanes. The Federal Highway Administration says that HOV lanes may appear to be lightly traveled, but when you take into account passengers in buses and car pools, HOV lanes often carry more people than unrestricted lanes. "We hope that as people see how fast these lanes move, they'll be encouraged to get a rider or use buses rather than driving by themselves," said Crosby. HOV lanes come in many stripes, though most can be identified by the large diamonds painted in the middle. Many allow motorcycles. Some allow two people per vehicle, others require three or more. Some are effective only during rush hour. In Washington, D.C., which has a three-person minimum for HOV lanes, motorists form impromptu car pools at set spots throughout the city, a process known as "slugging" or "casual carpooling" because people often pick up strangers. Nancy Vinson, a project manager with the Coastal Conservation League, said HOV lanes will encourage carpooling during rush hour while reducing air pollution "and the need for ever-increasing taxpayer-funded widening projects." If HOV lanes work here, they might serve as a model for Greenville and Columbia, which also have severe rush-hour congestion, Limehouse said. And if HOV lanes don't work, it's relatively easy to turn them back into unrestricted lanes. "We can always go back to the way it was: gridlock." Reach Tony Bartelme at 937-5554 or tbartelme@postandcourier.com Editor's note: Earlier versions of this story gave an incorrect title for H.B. "Buck" Limehouse. The Post and Courier regrets the error. |
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Comments
This article has 46 comment(s)
Posted by suec on July 20, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas, is your talk radion alias "Malcom"?
Posted by Tulane75 on July 20, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I heard a story that this guy was late for a (Dodgers) game, but he was alone in his car and wasn't permitted to use the HOV lane. His solution was to pick up a passenger from the side of the road and he "zoomed" off to the game. The only problem was that this "lady of the night" made him take her into the game so as not to feel used for HOV lane purposes.
I wouldn't want to be that guy and have to explain all of this to his wife.
This story demonstrates one of the hidden dangers of HOV lanes. The authorities should think twice on this one!
Posted by DoaMM on July 20, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Atlanta has had HOV lanes for years now. They weren't helping the situation very much so they widened the roads. Now they've reached a point to where they cannot expand without lengthening ALL the bridges in the city. There are no emergency lanes under overpasses.
What was the city's solution to that? Allow buses, and only buses, to use the emergency lanes between exits to "ease congestion". Now, as you're sitting still in traffic, you'll have a bus doing 50 mph pass you on the right in a lane that's not even a lane. It's a nightmare for emergency workers.
Widen the roads now to the maximum and forget about an HOV lane. There aren't enough people who want to commute together. Just add more lanes, idiots.
Posted by JohnS on July 20, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yea right. Expand the road only to let a certain few use it.
Go back to the drawing board. This isn't DC.
Posted by a_set_love on July 20, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HOV lanes will make City of Charleston environmentalists feel all warm and fuzzy about themselves. These lanes will only serve to increase congestion throughout the Tri-County Metro Area.
Buses and other high occupancy vehicles flow smoothly most days, Monday - Friday, except when theres an accident. This usually holds true from the Montague overpass in the City of North Charleston to the Crosstown in the City of Charleston. The Crosstown, well thats another story.
When you hit the I-26/I-526 intersection the problem really becomes evident, except to the SCDOT engineers that created the mess.
The real question becomes why aren't we trying to help traffic flow throughout the entire Tri_County Metro Area instead of trying to make it easier for a few to drive into the City of Charleston more quickly.
You've got to wonder whats really behind this as a small group wastes your hard earned tax dollars.
Posted by Slick50 on July 20, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Charlotte has a 2 person HOV lane that is always empty when I drive through town. DC has a 3 or 4 person HOV lane that is usually pretty busy, but not as packed as I-95 heading to town. HOV lanes are a great, as long as they don't take existing traffic lanes to make them. It would appear that I-26 is beyond this concept. This idea should have been implemented during the last road and bridge widening cycle.
So, John S. is probably dead on the money....widen the roads and forget about an HOV lane. Of course, all the bridges will have to be reworked regardless of which plan they take. Either way, it will be more congestion and MORE money.
Posted by moonpie on July 20, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
malcom or thomas now calls into the RockyD, and morning buzz show. The reason I listen to sirus radio!
"Summerville, Goose Creek, North Charleston and Charleston are among the fastest growing" If these areas are the most sought after now then control the growth. Do it right this time not as it was allowed before. Every spec of dirt has a house. We have emty neighborhoods all over Chas, empty retail space all over Chas. How could we possibly need more?
I'm not against controlled, managed, growth.
Posted by scienceguy on July 20, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HOV lanes have been in effect in Portland for almost thirty years. On a related issue check out http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Article....
Also on a related issue, tripsa, how are you coming on Asphalt Nation? I read many of your sources and I found them to be either wrong, off topic, or disjointed.
Some of the other people who comment on Post & Courier articles on transportation should consider how congestion problems have been attacked in other cities. HOV lanes, light rail, express buses, flex time for government employees, virtual commuting--all can help solve the problem. But, as Anthony Downs wrote 16 years ago, "expansions of road capacity -- no matter how large, within the limits of feasibility -- cannot fully eliminate periods of crawling along on expressways at frustratingly low speeds." See, http://www.walkablestreets.com/triple.ht....
In other words, we cannot build our way out of congestion--we have to change the traffic patterns.
Posted by RTC on July 20, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How can a vehicle be classified as a HOV with only two people inside? I still don't understand that.
I also saw these lanes totally unoccupied while traveling in Virginia. Seems like a waste of roadway if they aren't being utilized.
Posted by hartley8184 on July 20, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have an idea. Let's widen HWY 61 to 4 lanes and build some bridges across the river between 61 and Dorchester Road. Three or four on the stretch between West Ashley and Summerville. That will solve the traffic problem.
Posted by HighDef on July 20, 2008 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How about a truckers only lane heading out of the new port in North Chuck. The trucks crawl on to 26 from mt p and jam the merge up horrificly ! Maybe some signs pointing to columbia/summerville on the left and ashley frustrate/goose crek on the right ?
Posted by rollo on July 20, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Last Wed, or Thurs, I heard a report on the radio that Limehouse was calling for higher State gasoline taxes because people were driving less thus buying less gas. This leaves SCDOT with less money for road maintenance.(One would think that less traffic would mean less need for maintenance, but that's just me...) So,... the answer to that dilemma is to spend more money to encourage people to buy even less gas??
This brings up the question, 'do public transportation services pay fuel taxes?' They do use the public roads!
When does Gov't tighten its' belt?
Posted by Reader on July 20, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't think eliminating traffic is all that important in the first place. Traffic provides the best possible check on over-development.
At SOME point, traffic will become so bad that we see an end to the awful urban sprawl that is spreading out all the way to Moncks Corner. But, until then, as long as we continue to see spec housing spring up in Jedburg and Bowman, the problem with traffic is obviously not THAT bad.
HOV lanes, commuter trains, road widenings and other proposals all potentially decrease the congestion on our main roads. But, each one is only a temporary solution. If reducing the traffic were the ONLY effect, then I would favor those measures. However, as soon as the traffic is reduced, the reduction will only spur even MORE urban sprawl further out, and the problem will crop back up again.
Posted by onedeep on July 20, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A HOV lane is not the right answer. The correct answer is an express lane that opens after Summerville and doesn't let out until before the bridge exit. This would give a lot of the same benefits of a HOV lane, but can be used by non-carpool folks, and - because they can be reversible - only need the addition of one lane.
Posted by Ron_Godzilla on July 20, 2008 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The rest of the country has been using HOV lanes for almost 30 years now. Way to go SC...last in everything again.
Posted by iamthewalrus on July 20, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hartley8184, you might be being facetious (Hwy, 61 expand to 4 lanes?), but I have to agree with the one point that if there were a bridge from Bee's Ferry to Dorchester Rd, it would alleviate a lot of Summerville/West Ashley traffic (of course Bees Ferry would have to be expanded). There already is a train trestle there, so perhaps build a new combined road/train bridge.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=bees+ferry...
Posted by Reader on July 20, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Onedeep wrote, "The correct answer is an express lane that opens after Summerville and doesn't let out until before the bridge exit."
A dedicated road meant ONLY to get people from Point A to Point B would, indeed, speed delivery of people between those two points. However, these projects never work. What happens is what you see with the Glenn McConnell Parkway. It started out in concept as a bypass to alieviate some congestion along Highway 61. In fact, there was talk about extending it all the way to Summerville.
But, look at what happened. Instead of being a dedicated road with very limited access points (like interstates), it has become clogged up as adjacent property owners have been allowed to build intersections all along it. Now there are fast food joints, temporary storage facilities, and condo developments all the way from the hospital to Bees Ferry Road.
Not only does each intersection physically slow traffic along the road, but, as I mentioned in the posting above, it simply opened a release valve for more urban sprawl. The development followed, and now, we are no better off than we were before the road was built. The traffic it has generated has taken the place of the traffic it reduced on the existing roads.
Posted by PalmettoDP on July 20, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If the HOV lane abruptly begins and ends - like the ones on I-77 in Charlotte - we'd be better off with just building more general purpose lanes. I'd be open to the HOV idea as long as it was part of a larger interconnected network and existing lanes weren't converted to HOV.
Posted by Osgood30 on July 20, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is about time. We've need an HOV lane for years now. But like most of the Country, Charleston County is 10 yrs behind a good idea. Carpooling would look very enticing to those people standing still in the lanes 1,2,3, while those with 2+ wiz by in the HOV lane. It would also allow for CARTA to increase their Express Service.
How about lower insurance rates for those who carpool? How about employer based incentives like free parking for employees who carpool? Hmmm. Government planning has become an oxymoron.
Next time you're sitting in rush-hour traffic, look around and see how many cars only have one person sitting in it. SUVs to boot!
Posted by EvilGenius on July 20, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I dont think the HOV lane will work. mainly because most people want to keep the freedom of having their car with them. (right or wrong). A lot of people run errands during their lunch time and riding with someone restricts that.
I dont see mass transit anytime soon either.
stop the developing of sub-divisions. the area is already saturated with homes for sale.
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Posted by Reader on July 20, 2008
I don't think eliminating traffic is all that important in the first place. Traffic provides the best possible check on over-development.
--------------------------------------------------------
makes sense.
Posted by robbybobby on July 20, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
we have now officially been taken over by the invading horde of yankees.
Posted by drp7773 on July 20, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
With many years experience in the Atlanta traffic and HOV lanes I can tell you this, they are only as good as he traffic around you. An accident up ahead and HOV lanes can and will shut down like all the rest, a broke down car causing backups will cause backups in the Hov lane too. The closer you get to conggestion and more exits etc. the more they back up. One car 3 miles up the road slows down and it starts a slow chain reaction and all lanes will follow suit. When there is no traffic and things are slow the hov lanes seldom get used because it doesn't matter. In other words it is a waste of money for signs and paint when it comes down to there just isnt enough lanes for the cars that exist on the roads. People need to slow down and the cops need to triple in the bad areas to make this happen and traffic will flow better, also they need to raise the driving age this will eliminate quite a few cars of kids just driving around or driving to school etc. also this would help with insurance rates and less deaths. Local roads need to have the speed limit dropped to 55 and make trucks ride the right 1 or 2 lanes at lesser speeds from Summerville to Mt Pleasant. There are no majic sollutions just like Atlanta has found out with all the wasted money on stupid gadgets and hov lanes etc. They just now came up with red and green lights machines to get on the interstate to help the flow, it does not work it just confuses and backs up traffic but because of the money they have spent they will not admit it.
Posted by zoomru on July 20, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We need FREEDOM...!!
Freedom of choice. Close minded fools choke US all and waste OUR tax money to do it too boot. Our problems NOW are about 20 years too late.
Do we need MASS TRANSIT ?? YES! But just ONE form will NOT..NOT work! An elevated MAG-LEV Light RAIL from Charleston to JEDBURG will not SOLVE anything. We need feeder service using SKYTRAN or something similar to support it. Our mass transit solution should LEAD the country. Will we not learn from other cities MISTAKES?? These morons can't solve anything except a kickback scheme!!
STOP WIDENING THE ROADS AND THE PEOLPE WILL SEEK FASTER TRANSPORT...PERIOD. I am not against building roads to access property. BUT ..we are not L.A. or DC.??..are we?
When SCE&G puts up MEGA POLES down Folly Road, shouldn't they be multi use to serve multiple purposes?? Those GODZILLA Poles should hold power lines, cable, telephone and..(you guessed it) ..SKYTRAN transportation from www.unimodal.com.
If OUR leaders were LEADERS, we would have OUR coastline FULL of windturbines from www.selsam.com or GE to help power our transportation instead of OIL.
Mayor Riley and Summey and all other MAYORS..What R U Doing?
COUNCILMAN Scott and the LOT..What R U Doing?
Rep Henry Brown..What R U Doing?
Gov Sanford..Get ready for that conference!! Prepare a STATEWIDE buildout to solve school bussing, commuter transit AND mass transit.
Senatoro Lindse' Suave' Graham-nista..What R U Doing? Directing traffic in Bogota Columbia??
SCDOT "Brotherhood".....What R U Doing?
Rep James "Grand Master Flash" Clyburn..What R U whipping?
Andre "the GIANT" Bauer...Stop spreading CHEEZE Whiz !!
Henry "McDaddy" McMaster...Where R Ur fries??
Every Editor in this STATE.. Do U Drive???
Posted by NativeSC on July 20, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
HOV lanes will be just like people running red lights, illegally using disabled parking placards, parking illegally in fire lanes in front of grocery stores, and all of the other things that there are laws in place for, only they aren't enforced because the police are too lazy or uninterested. People will abuse the HOV lanes, nothing will be done about it, and we will be right back where we are now, we just won't have wasted the money to do it.
Posted by hartley8184 on July 20, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Widen Hwy 61 to four or even six lanes. Build three or four bridges across the river at key points to link 61 and Dorchester Road between West Ashley and Summerville. That is the ONLY WAY you are going to solve this traffic problem. And, you need more bridges across the river to Mt P., just not as badly. There is no other solution that is economically feasible. A rail line isn't going to work. Buses aren't going to work. Why? Because the traffic on 26 is going to continue to grow and grow. Sorry. Mass Transit will AUGMENT the solution, but it won't solve it alone. The only reason you people are hung up on this mass transit solution is because, for some reason, you can't concieve of another solution. You need another artery serving the peninsula. ONE ROAD doesn't work. HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOO. This isn't rocket science. The solution is easy. Quit worrying about stupid trees on 61. Here's an earthshattering news flash... the trees can be moved. More trees can be grown.
Posted by hartley8184 on July 20, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Take a look at the google map of Hwy 61. Notice: It's road running all the way down the river. Notice: It is a main avenue off the peninsula for those living on the West Ashley side. Notice: It parellels Dorchester Road very closely all the way from Summerville to West Ashley. And, notice how many feeder roads serve it. Virtually none. So, guess how all the thousands and thousands of people living on that side of the river get to work every day if they live on the other side of the river. How does an Airport or Airbase employee who lives in Shadowmoss or Village Green get to work everyday? The area is only 5 minutes away across the river. But guess how long the drive is.... How about the thousands who work on Ashley Phosphate or the thousands who will be working in the new industrial area? HELLLOOOO. It's time to quit coddling a few rich bluebloods and their trees. Widen the road and build some bridges across the river for CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!! MOVE THE TREES!!!! IT'S a NO-BRAINER
Posted by zoomru on July 20, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey ...Senator Jim "Pimento" Deminto...
http://www.thestate.com/politics/story/4...
http://www.fitsnews.com/make-contact/#co...
We may need some condoms down here?!! With all this "jockeying" going on for kickbacks; some protection of all sorts may be in need!!
Senator Jim Demint…….
Furthermore:
“….I don’t want to hear that we are holding the line. We are not holding anything! WE ARE ADVANCING…..!! ”
Sir, the article makes you out to be “holding” something!! Sir ..YOU need to eat a couple of TACOs and get in your partner Lindse’ Suave’s face and have a “chat”. THEN both of you need to gingerly put your hands around some throats of CERTAIN individuals and ask if they ever wear condoms!! If they don’t know what one looks like…take them to the PETRO truck stop on I-95 and take them into the bathroom and watch them insert the COINS. Have some truckers teach them how to put them ON if they need instructions. The time for this type of reporting in this STATE is OVER…. WE ARE ADVANCING !! You let the individuals know that we will use their INK to grease our progressing….ADVANCING….State’s TANKS!!
…this message was brought to you by the Spirit of PATTON
Posted by scienceguy on July 20, 2008 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hartley8184:
This is what Mayor Summey wants to do--so he can put another 5,000 homes in the North Charleston part of Dorchester County and make the rest of Dorchester County pay for the infrastructure. That's why there is a lawsuit between Summerville and North Charleston.
Posted by rollo on July 20, 2008 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hartley8184;
Another good reason to expand 61, build more bridges, expand Dorchester and other westbound roads is for emergency evac. Think Floyd was a mess?
The prob with '26 now is that once significant traffic begins to exit @ Remount, Aviation, and Ash Phos., there is nowhere for it to go except to a red light.
Posted by scienceguy on July 20, 2008 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
stand828:
One of the constant themes in these posts has been the idea that public transportation, new roads, etc. ought to pay for themselves. Another has been that the people in Summerville, Johns Island (wherever the poster does not live) should quit whining about the commute becasue no one forced them to live there. So I was just wondering which of the many bridges paid for exclusively by those living in Mt. Pleasant you use to get to your job in North Charleston. I was also wondering if you are going to "whine" when a big hurricane hits Mt. Pleasant and your insurance rates go up so much that you will need government assistance to pay your premiums.
Seriously--at some point, folks are going to have to realize that we are all in this boat together and that we have to all start bailing or we will sink.
Posted by scienceguy on July 20, 2008 at 7:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
tripsa:
Mass transit is just part of the answer. And none of the various components of the "answer" will "pay for themselves" in a way that will be obvious to anyone possessed only of basic math skills.
Posted by lowcountrylover on July 20, 2008 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
WELL, HOV LANES WILL JUST MAKE A NEW MONEYMAKER FOR LOCAL PO PO!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on July 20, 2008 at 10:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
HOV lanes don't work.I lived in VA for about 3 yrs and these lanes are a joke.Traffic stays backed up in the other lanes and a few frustrated folks get pissed and drive in them anyways.Theyre closed at certain times,it's just a joke.I hope we don't waste our tax dollars on this generic bandaid being solicited as a solution.
Posted by zekemire on July 21, 2008 at 1:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Won't work! Just look at Atlanta, New Jersey, Orlando and other places where tried! HOV lanes cause more congestion and are useless! In fact, I do not have the article now, but, New Jersey was in the process of disbanding the HOV lanes in favor of standard traffic lanes to increase traffic flow!
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on July 21, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
...I hate to admit it but we better start looking at some sort of rail system/mass transit...
wpc3iop -I absolutely feel the same way.
Posted by icbmman on July 21, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Some good points have been raised here. HOV lanes on I-26 will not work unless they widen the highway even more. The original widening to eight lanes would have to be changed to ten lanes: 8 lanes for non-carpooling traffic and two for HOV.
Here's another necessity: mass transit, like monorail, should be also included in the project. Yes, it would be expensive, but it would provide a multi-faceted solution to a multi-faceted problem.
Another good point by hartley: the metro area needs more of the main arteries to be interconnected. Bridges...maybe tunnels...need to be considered connecting 61 to 642, 17 to River Road on Johns Island, Riverland Drive to River Road; even more roads within each area, such as Glenn McConnell and 17, 642 to Rivers Avenue...
Interconnectivity and multiple forms of transit are the key.
Posted by scienceguy on July 21, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
stand828:
As a "liberal Democrat," surely you must understand that some of those who live in Summerville would rather live closer to their work at MUSC, C of C (or wherever) but cannot afford to live on the Peninsula and pay for private schools at the same time. And I suspect that most would not mind a thirty-minute commute. But, a rush hour commute from--say Walnut Farms to MUSC--is about double the thirty minutes advertised by the Post and Courier. So HOV lanes might help reduce that travel time.
icbmman:
HOV lanes are part of a "multi-faceted solution to a multi-faceted problem."
coolfreaknbeans:
Before you conclude that HOV lanes “don’t work,” you should ask the folks who use them rather than the folks who sit in the other lanes watching the HOV lane users whizzing to work. I have personally used the HOV lanes in Portland and Chicago and find that they work very well during the morning commute. (That is if you don’t mind all the “middle finger Peace Signs” sent your way by those stuck in traffic exercising their “God-given right“ to be late to work, spend their money idling, and raise their blood pressure.) In a similar vein, I used to take a toll road from Orlando to Miami. Those who sat on I-95 may also have thought that "toll roads don't work."
tripsa:
I am glad to see that Rush is not your only source of information. Keep reading Asphalt Nation, but keep in mind that salaries have not kept up with inflation so whether gasoline is a good deal in comparison to other things is irrelevant. We still have to find ways to make it possible for people to get to work and have enough money left over that they can pay their food bills.
Posted by icbmman on July 21, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Scienceguy, notice I said that HOV lanes would not work if DOT does them in conjunction with the CURRENT plan for widening I-26. I'm for HOV lanes...but only as additional lanes to the current widening plan.
Posted by scienceguy on July 21, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)
icbmman:
How do you know that adding HOV lanes will not relieve congestion by encouraging folks to carpool?
Posted by icbmman on July 21, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The evidence from other cities like Atlanta and Charlotte show that HOV lanes cannot do it alone. People have to WANT to carpool, and as much as government entities would like to, they can't control people's behavior.
If you agree with my multi-faceted solutions, then you would agree that adding another lane AND HOV lane would decrease traffic. It would also allow for more cars as the metro area grows.
Posted by scienceguy on July 21, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
icbmman:
I agree with a multi-faceted approach. I would guess that adding two HOV lanes would help decrease congestion though it would not actually decrease the number of folks traveling to Charleston. Adding two lanes would--counterintuitve as it may seem--increase traffic because it would encourage more growth along the I-26 corridor.
Don't ake my word for this. Go to West Palm Beach and see how they are handling exponential growth. It's not by building more Interstate lanes.
Dom Nozzi writes a great deal on these issues. You may want to read his book or some of his articles.
Posted by scienceguy on July 21, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Road to Ruin: An Introduction to Sprawl and how to Cure it By Dom Nozzi
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...
Posted by icbmman on July 21, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Scienceguy, how many interstate lanes does the West Palm Beach area have? Nevermind. I just checked out the street view on Google maps...the area already has FOUR LANES of traffic on both sides of I-95. In addition, the Florida Turnpike runs parallel to it...giving an alternative route. As a matter of fact, some of the street view pictures show construction on I-95 with widening. Nice try, though.
Ahhh...and then a reference toward anti-sprawl. The typical "solution": by making things worse for commuters, we can force their choices in where they live, work, play, and how they get there. Wonderful. </sarc>
Charleston is only playing catch-up to West Palm Beach and other cities. Mass transit itself is not going to be the magic pill, neither will HOV lanes, neither will widening unless ALL solutions are applied at the same time.
Posted by icbmman on July 21, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
<<Posted by scienceguy on July 21, 2008 at 12:23 p.m.
Adding two lanes would--counterintuitve as it may seem--increase traffic because it would encourage more growth along the I-26 corridor.>>
I have to disagree with this. This seems to be the same response to the solution: widening encourages more growth. As can be observed with Johns Island, Goose Creek, and Summerville, that statement is proven incorrect. Development is going to come as long as the demand is there, unfortunately, regardless of infrastructure. S'ville and JI are great examples of this.
Posted by scienceguy on July 23, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
icbmman:
You and I will have to just agree to disagree. But, I want to direct your attention to Road to Ruin: An Introduction to Sprawl and how to Cure it and Asphalt Nation: How the Automobile Took Over America and How We Can Take It Back by Jane Holtz Kay; the latter book is available at the Charleston County Library.
If you think we can build our way out of sprawl, I suggest you take a drive from L.A, to San Diego at rush hour because that's where we are headed in South Carolina. Converely, you may want to review the recovery plan for the Mississippi Gulf Coast to see how they plan to avoid our mistakes.
Posted by hartley8184 on July 23, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A train system will not work because you cannot simply throw a train line up overnight and expect it to work well as a mass transit solution. It will take 50 to 75 years for the proper network to develop in order to make it a feasible solution across the Lowcountry. The sort of rail lines that NYC or Chicago have take more than a century to develop. The only way it would work is if it is built as a tourist transport mechanism on the Penninsula. But that can't be done without major disruptions of the cherished storybook landscape. Tourists would be better off with bicycles and horse carriages.
A better solution would be to put money into big CARTA buses and expanded routes, and add tons of smaller minibuses to work feeder routes from the main lines. Only, you need to figure a way to make these buses run on solar energy or politician hot air power because gas is going to be $10 a gallon soon. Oh yeah, can we build some sidewalks and bike paths in this backwards state?