Agenda policy under reviewSome members disagree with so-called 'gag rule' By Diette Courrégé (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Friday, August 8, 2008
John Graham Altman If a Charleston County School Board member wants to talk about a certain issue at a board meeting, that desire alone is not enough to have the issue placed on the agenda. The board has a policy that at least four members must agree to have an item placed on an agenda for discussion, but some members say that rule needs to change. "I don't like that," Vice Chairwoman Nancy Cook said at a recent board meeting. "I just feel, and I always practiced this, that when anyone had anything they wanted to discuss, they could discuss it." The board's policy on its meeting agenda came up for revision at its most recent meeting, and it prompted discussion about whether the four-member requirement was a good rule. The policy was put in place in 1993 as a way to keep a former and controversial board member, John Graham Altman, from introducing issues at the last minute. The move was criticized by some members and called "a gag rule." Board member Gregg Meyers told the board that individual members used to load up the agenda with "things that the board as a body wouldn't even begin to take seriously." Board members were abusing the right to put items on the agenda, and the four-member requirement was a means to curb discussion of issues that had no chance of passing, he said. Debbie Elmore, communications director for the South Carolina School Boards Association, said a quick perusal of policies maintained by the association showed that a majority of school boards allow members to request items to be put on the agenda, and the final decision would be made by the chairperson working with the superintendent. Robert Croom, an assistant director for the South Carolina Association of Counties, didn't think it unusual for larger governmental bodies to place restrictions on meeting agendas. He said the bigger the body, the more procedural rules to keep the flow of business orderly. Such restrictions are less common in smaller counties, but not so in larger ones where meetings can last for hours, he said. Altman, one of four candidates for two West Ashley seats in November, denied that he put issues on the agenda that delayed or disrupted meetings. Chairman Hillery Douglas, a 16-year board member, countered: "He was the most disruptive board member I ever served with." Altman said the board needed to get rid of the four-member rule because elected officials ought to be heard, and he described the rule as "insane" and "undemocratic." Conversely, the policy doesn't require four members to take an issue off the agenda. Member Arthur Ravenel Jr. told the board he wants to see that become part of policy, and he cited the difficulty the Charleston Charter School for Math & Science had with its leasing agreement disappearing from agendas. The revised policy passed on first reading, with Ray Toler and David Engelman voting against it. The policy will go to the board again for second and final reading after the next policy committee meeting, the date for which hasn't been set. Reach Diette Courrégé at 937-5546 or dcourrege@ postandcourier.com. |
Article tools |
|
Notice about comments: Charleston.net is pleased to offer readers the ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. Charleston.net does not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not charleston.net. If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "suggest removal" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Full terms and conditions can be read here. |
Comments
This article has 32 comment(s)
Posted by lillycollette on August 8, 2008 at 3:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This seems to be a good policy -- unless you would have the public believe that Altman was the only problem child out there. LOL!
Posted by zoomru on August 8, 2008 at 6:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Uh....OH!!!
Citizens of the STATE !!!! READ THIS ARTICLE ..CLOSELY !!
This is why OUR schools are ....(in general) ..CRAP !!
Quote:
"Chairman Hillery Douglas, a 16-year board member, countered: "He was the most disruptive board member I ever served with."
Chairman Hillery Douglas.... YOU IDIOT !! HAVE you ever looked in the MIRROR?? Are you THAT Elitist to think that YOU are NOT the problem?? I don't see a HALO on anyone's head.... YOU RAVENEL'er !!! You ..sound to me like a COMMUNIST !!! Everyone's voice MATTERS...you LOON !! Every issue should be a matter of PUBLIC record at every MEETING !!
Obviously...Citizens reading this, that if ONE board member has an issue the they want to get on the agenda; there must be a reason for it ...POLITICAL or NOT !! If it takes all night to concluded a meeting....SO BE IT !! Students pull ALL NIGHTERs to prep for a TEST !! We taxpayers work overtime or 2 or 3 jobs to pay these impuning school TAXES !! 16 YEARS is way too long for anyone to be on a BOARD !!
NO WONDER WE CAN'T GET "PUBLIC SCHOOL VOUCHERS" passed to improve OUR schools.
If you were on a BOARD long enough to control food contracts, bussing contracts, book contracts, teacher PAY, and CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS. WOULD YOU WANT ANYTHING TO CHANGE !! NO !!!!
SCREW....children's EDUCATION !!!
IF our children or TEACHERS are not FREE; then ...WHAT ??
THEY ARE ...SLAVES !!!
Are We not SLAVES to the whims of school TAX increases !!
VOTERS and CITIZENS...things will only improve IF we do ......WHAT ??
Posted by zoomru on August 8, 2008 at 6:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh ..BOY ?
"..Robert Croom, an assistant director for the South Carolina Association of Counties, said the bigger the body, the more procedural rules to keep the flow of business orderly..."
ROBERT-o CROON-asa !! Rules to keep the flow ORDERLY !!
ORDERLY ?? BY who's order !! WHO !! THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION ?? WHO...JIM (T-REX) REX ???
Roberto...you mean rules to keep ALL your little CHICKs in a ..ROW !!! Heaven forbid that someone have an opinion that would actually help improve education for OUR children !!?? My Backside !!!
Voters...you think congestion is BAD at 5pm on I-26 at "Ashley Frustrate"....remember this article when WE are sitting IN traffic and HONK your HORNS !!!
Posted by zoomru on August 8, 2008 at 6:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Voters,
If you don't think this article is eye opening; read about this ....
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbc...
Henry MacDADDY McMASTER is getting PINCHED !! Watch him waltze around this and basically PULL a BOBBY HARRELL stunt!
He will table this so it gets no attention !! OR...right the opposite! He will go orbital and blast this RICH dude from New York for trying to get the school voucher issue more visible.
Are we that pathetic that it takes someone from NEW YORK to HELP us FREE ...OUR children and teachers from their SLAVERY to OUR school system?? ARE OUR LEGISLATORs THAT CORRUPT TO THE SYSTEM WE HAVE HAD FOR HOW LONG ??
I just wonder how much press this will continue to GET ??
Posted by 10216340 on August 8, 2008 at 6:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmmm, interesting that this is being brought out in the press now, just when John Graham Altman is seeking election to the board again.
Interesting also that Douglas has to sucker punch Altman just before the election.
Posted by mlm on August 8, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The report said, "The board's policy on its meeting agenda came up for revision at its most recent meeting, and it prompted discussion about whether the four-member requirement was a good rule." But the report didn't say anything about what the revision was...or about the discussion...or about what it was that two members voted against. None of this was made clear in this report.
Did I miss something here? All I could make out from this is the school board is again acting cripticly, as usual, about something it believes the public doesn't need to know. Please show me the logic of a rule that requires MORE THAN 40% of a democratic body's approval to even discuss a subject.
Posted by karmann on August 8, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Once again CCSD is playing politics with the education of our children. How come the post and courier doesn't do a piece on the actual positive vs negative effectiveness of CCSD schools? I don't blame Mt Pleasant for wanting to pull out of CCSD control.
Posted by RW on August 8, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
zoomru,
Why so mad at Govt? They are only here to help? LOL!
Posted by abitskeptical on August 8, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This policy encourages the natural tendency of humans to form cliques [gangs? :)] when they are part of any larger group--regardless of whether they are in the group by choice(clubs,religious worship groups, etc), election, or force(jail).
Maybe we can blame this policy for our school board acting like a bunch of clique-y middle schoolers, but I'm pretty sure they were behaving this way before the policy was put in place....
Posted by shoelaces on August 8, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe we should impose term limits on ALL elected officials, no matter how large or small the elected position is...??? I have always thought it would be a good idea to have school board members who actually have some sort of a teaching or education background. Then there may be some hope that people in "control" have a little insight into what it is like inside a school.
10216340....I thought the same thing. Typical politics to start hitting below the belt prior to the elections. Personally I like JGA. He seems to be one of the few if not the only politician who tells it like he sees it. Unfortunately, people don't always want to take off their rose colored glasses and taste reality.
I do wish he would do something about that house, though!!!
Posted by Thomas1776 on August 8, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is no good reason to vote Altman back to the school board. The man has no worth and everywhere he goes he rubs everybody wrong. He's way out of touch.
Fix your home up, John G! It looks so run down and reflects on YOUR character.
Nancy Cook? Another pathetic joke. I bet she has been busy double checking records at the homeless shelter, a shelter that is run largely from federal tax dollars.
Posted by CHRISJIII on August 8, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
John Graham Altman shouldn't be elected dogcatcher!!! The 4 member rule does seem undemocratic though. The article didn't give very much in depth reporting as to what was being offered instead of the 4 memeber rule.
Posted by ColdBeer on August 8, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The policy was put in place in 1993 as a way to keep a former and controversial board member, John Graham Altman, from saying anything as he was just too f'n ugly to look at....
Posted by abitskeptical on August 8, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To validate your theory, CB, we need a photo of him from 1993.
I know that I, myself, am not nearly as beautiful as I was 15 yrs ago... :)
Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on August 8, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
John Graham Altman has my vote! If there were others like him, maybe the school system would have a good change. He may be political, but he is never afraid to say what needs to be said!
I admire that greatly! Too many people are about their image on that school board, but not Mr Altman.
Posted by ColdBeer on August 8, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've never been beautiful.. but I've never had a picture that looks anything like the one above either <lol>. I shouldn't pick on the man's looks. I'm trying to do better. It's difficult when you see a pic like that though.
Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on August 8, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Who cares what he looks like? :) Just curious....
Im hoping that there are MAJOR changes on the Charleston County School Board ... not eye candy. :)
Posted by cwmcpa on August 8, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
thomas 1776
I know a good anger management specialist. I think you need her phone nummber. JGA was one of the few voices of reason on the school board. People do not like him because he is an advocate of personal responsibiltiy and accountabilty something the CCSB has been lacking.
Posted by Newt on August 8, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ChasGirl:
If you want change why go backwards? John Altman is never going to be a solution to ANYTHING! He is a bigoted, racist OLD man that's time has past...just like Ravenels.
Posted by CHRISJIII on August 8, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said Newt!!!!
Posted by shoelaces on August 8, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Again, Altman always spoke his mind....which was usually the truth. But for most, the truth hurts. If the folks on the current board can't get someone in their pocket to vote their way then they don't want him/her.
Let the bashing begin.....sad though. Altman's own daughter is a teacher so at least HE knows a little something about what we go through in the classroom.
Anyone know if any of the other board members have any education background or ties? I just think if you haven't walked the walk then you can't talk the talk - in some cases.
Posted by Newt on August 8, 2008 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
John Graham can walk? I thought for sure Charm was pushing him around in a chair by now!
He was on the school board 25 years ago…he thinks public education should be Special Ed and “colored people”. That’s why he cares nothing about our schools!
Our governor’s school district in Sullivan Island, one of the best elementary schools I have ever visited. Prime real estate with beautiful views of the beach, an excellent teaching staff and a wonderful library tower!! Where did our governor send his kids? Pirvate school! When your elected officials don’t believe in public education what do you expect? And how can it ever get any better with “minimally adequate”?
Posted by Newt on August 8, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and by the way....my mom is a principal, that means I know nothing about what she faces every day. Just like Graham.
Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on August 8, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Newt ~ He is racist? Wow .. how did you know that? Some people call other people racist so easily. How about Mr Robert Ford .. He is a HUGE JERK who is an egotistical, racist jerk! Who cares though?
As shoelaces said, JGA always speaks his mind. What is wrong w/ that? Would you rather have someone who tried to make everyone happy and could never make a choice?
Depends on how much you are interested in your mom's job as a principal. At least he has a direct contact into the school system of how things are handled w/ her school as a teacher.
...and thus Im sure that prime real estate and beautiful views of the beach inhance a child's learning skills so much. NOT!
Your views are simply shallow.
Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on August 8, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oops... Correction to my post before the spelling bees bite me in the ass ...
Enhance instead of "Inhance"
Sorry for the misspelling! I do so apologize! :0)
Posted by shoelaces on August 8, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If I could afford private school I would send my kids to one too!!!! And I teach in public schools.
Why on earth would a politician risk the safety of his/her kids in a very public setting. Sadly, even on the affluent Sullivan's Island, Sanford's kids probably wouldn't be as safe as they are now. And as Governor I would hope he would protect his family.
Why do you think SI Elementary is such a great school? Let's take a look at their tax base and the background of their families. Those kids are from backgrounds where their families actually...what's the word I am looking for here...oh, CARE about their chidlren's education.
It is Friday, troll feeding at the PnC.....otherwise I wouldn't bother.
And as for LOOKS...a bunch idiots are trying to elect Mr. Potato Head as our nation's president....looks don't matter for ANYTHING in politics. It should be character and intelligence and EXPERIENCE!!!!
Posted by Newt on August 8, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GIRL:
I have had several conversations with John Graham. I base my opinion of him on more sound footing than yours!
Also, I have a terrific interest in what my mother does, but that does not mean I am an expert on her profession. And neither is John Graham.
Lest you forget, I also stated Sullivan Elementary had excellent TEACHERS! It also has huge parental support and the most up to date resources.
I have tried to crawl out of the name calling muck that has become such a big part of these posts. So, I'll just say that you are a terrific representation of why the South Carolina continues to be last at everything.
If we continue to live in the past we are doomed to repeat its failures!
Posted by Newt on August 8, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
shoelace:
Instead of fixing the problem you would run away. Says a lot for your fortitude and integrity.
Like he couldn’t pay to have security….be would be cheaper than private school.
Ditto to you, just like Girl…….. I have tried to crawl out of the name calling muck that has become such a big part of these posts. So, I'll just say that you are a terrific representation of why South Carolina continues to be last at everything.
Posted by ChasCarolinaGirl on August 8, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Whatever Newt. You miss the point as always and stoop to TRYING to make people feel stupid. Nice try!
I never said that you had an interest in what your mom does. Who cares if you do or not? You are not running to be on the school board dumb dumb! It doesnt matter that your MOM is the principle of a school ... duh!
My opinion of JGA is my opinion just as you have a right to your shallow opinion. Nothing that you have EVER typed has made any sense or held any water ... so whatever you have to say is usually a waste of air as always b/c you lower yourself so well on your own by calling out everyone b/c of their opinions. Again, you are the perfect example of someone who hates when people have a difference of opinion other than their own.
Grow up .. its called adulthood.
Posted by RW on August 8, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ChasCountyGirl,
You are correct. John Graham Altman has been sticking his finger in liberal eyes for many years! He speaks his mind. It really throttled the left when he beat the flaming homosexual a few years ago! They thought their time had come. I remember watching all,the crying lefties...boo hoo hoo! Mean ole John Graham Altman! lol!
Posted by stand828 on August 8, 2008 at 7:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't stand John Graham Altman, he's such an obnoxious pig. When I was in high school, I was the editor of the school newspaper. I wrote an article criticizing something Altman had done while on the school board, and instead of ignoring it, he wrote me a very nasty and insulting personal letter.
I was like 16 or 17, and didn't know how to respond, so I published his letter in the next issue of the paper. It caused a bit of an uproar, and I was terrified when I got called to the pricipal's office about it. When I walked in, though, the principal just smiled, shook his head, said "please don't do anything like that again," and told me to get back to class. I breathed a sigh of relief, but I've despised John Graham Altman ever since.
And his house has always looked like s**t. Why does he have that balcony without a door to get to it? And does his loony wife still stick plastic pink flamingos all over the yard?
Posted by 10216340 on August 9, 2008 at 12:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've always admired JGA for wading in no matter the situation. He definitely speaks his mind....and usually on topics that are political in nature (read politically incorrect/correct topics), something many people would love to have the courage to do.
I guess I really like him because I don't think he is slinking around behind the taxpayers/citizens back trying to pull a fast one. He tells it like it is and is a real advocate for those he represents. Wish I could vote for him but don't live in the correct area for that.